Music/Popular Culture

Tournament of Rock – Legends: the Green Day pod

Results: In perhaps our tightest and most competitive pod yet, Rush squeaked out a narrow win over Paul Simon. The numbers: #12 Rush 44%; Paul Simon/Simon and Garfunkel 40%; Phish 8%; Steve Winwood/Traffic/The Spencer Davis Group 6%; Dave Edmunds 2%; Slade 0%.

Our tournament to name the greatest band of all time has now reached the halfway point of pool play – 16 pods down, 16 to go. For those keeping score, the favorites are 10-6. Your humble tournament director’s picks are an even humbler 9-7.

Now, let’s make the turn and get started on the Back 9 16. We begin in the Fillmore region with a pod headed by what may very well be the best band in the world right now.

<br /> <a href=”http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1927475/” mce_href=”http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1927475/”>Which band/artist deserves to advance in the Tournament of Rock: Legends?</a><span style=”font-size:9px;” mce_style=”font-size:9px;”>(<a href=”http://answers.polldaddy.com” mce_href=”http://answers.polldaddy.com”>trends</a>)</span><br />

Polls close at midnight Saturday.

41 replies »

  1. Yay for the second to last comment in the previous pod. Says exactly why Bob is part of the rock spectrum. If he hadn’t been included in this tournament then a large part of UK rock would not be properly understood – Bob would have been the equivalent of the missing link. Rock on!

    Voted for Palmer…couldn’t not. 🙂

  2. “In 1978, he released Double Fun, a collection of Caribbean-influenced rock, including a down-tempo and syncopated cover of “You Really Got Me”. The album reached the Top 50 on the US Billboard charts and scored a Top 20 single with the Andy Fraser-penned “Every Kinda People”. With its blend of Caribbean steel pan, violins and moving lyrics, “Every Kinda People” has become one of Palmer’s best-loved songs, covered multiple times by other artists (including Chaka Demus and Pliers, Randy Crawford and Amy Grant) and cited by music fans and spiritual groups for its positive message. It reached #16 on the Billboard Hot 100.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Palmer_(singer)

  3. Oh hell, this is NOTHING compared to a few that are on the way. In fact, many people will probably see this pod as fairly lightweight. I don’t, but some will….

  4. It comes down to Tool and Green Day here.

    I like Green Day, in fact I favor 3 minute songs with hooks, however I can’t vote for them here. I think they inspired a good chunk of musicians, and they certainly won people and critics over with American Idiot. I don’t care to categorize them on what degrees of punk they are, to me their a pop band and I think what they did is reinvigorated a genre (I’ll let the punk purest argue over how punk they are). Not sure they broke much ground however.

    I personally like tool, but I’m not a huge fan becasue as previously stated I have a 3 minute attention span. What I do know is that they continue to be copied by just about every metal or rock band that comes out now. They have very good musicians, and their their drummer is one of the best in the biz. They also manage to provide some solid grooves and hooks in their songs. They also have some pretty good lyrics. Plus the members of this band have also done some pretty good side projects like Perfect Circle and they guest starred on one of the best bands ever albums, Kenmore New York’s own Green Jello!

    On a separate note I saw Tool once. I’m not going to lie, it was one of the most boring concerts I’ve ever been a part of. It was also the most pot I’ve ever smelled in my life. Two weeks later I saw Neil Diamond in the same venue, it was a hundred times more entertaining. Also Neil’s drummer actually had a bigger drum set then Tool, and he may have been more talented.

  5. Well, I’ve got it down to two: Green Day and Sisters of Mercy. Counting Crows was my third option, but in the process of writing this comment I realized I couldn’t articulate why, so I decided that was enough of a strike against them for my vote.

    My issue with Green Day is that their early stuff was pretty lame in my estimation, but their recent stuff has been fantastic (listening to American Idiot right now, in fact). And I’m just not sure whether their current potential is enough to earn my vote.

    To me, Sisters of Mercy birthed a musical genre that has since turned into a movement. And that deserves great credit. But is it enough? Maybe. Maybe not.

    • GD’s early stuff was lame? Dear lord, Brian. Some of their early stuff was the second coming of The Kinks. Not sure what standards you’re using here, but they had earned their way into this tournament by the time they released their fourth record.

  6. Actually, this wasn’t hard at all for me. Green Day, easy. I’m just annoyed for the same reason I was annoyed with the Queen pod. Some of my favorite bands are taking early hits. And, on a few occasions, the bands going down are ones I would have ranked above entire previous pods. That’s OK. I’m used to disappointment.

  7. Hey Ubertramp, I agree with you about the pod system, though the purpose of pods or playoffs in general is to find the overall best. It isn’t meant to serve as a ranking system. If we were to attempt to rank these bands by some other non-competitive system, clearly the probability is very high that at least one of the top 20 bands would have already been eliminated via this tournament format.

  8. Yeah. But the only way around that is by doing a round robin kinda thing. And that would take a freakin’ year to do. As much as I bitch, I can’t really complain too much about what Sam and Jim are trying to do. This shit is HARD. Especially for people who KNOW music. The temptation to include bands that should be legends, but aren’t, must be painfully difficult to deal with.

  9. I had to go with Robert Palmer, too. His “Addicted to Love” and Power Station period was some of my favorite rock ever.

  10. Up until American Idiot, I tended to turn the channel off when Green Day came on. Green Day struck me early on as a group trying to be the Clash, and failing. They turned it around with American Idiot. If Green Day can keep up their success with American Idiot and their new album (which I don’t remember the name to and haven’t listened to beyond a couple of songs in rotation on KBCO) for another few albums, they’ll be one of the greats. But that’s all potential, not existing, greatness.

    Which is why I voted for Sisters of Mercy here. Goth is one of the most consequential rock movements since the founding of the genre (more so than punk, IMO) and as such deserves to have one of the founding bands (if not the founding band) represented.

    It’s too bad they won’t even come close to winning and may even come in dead last.

    • Well, they’ve done eight studio records. Even the Allmusic Guide, which in this case is being WAY over-critical, gives six of them four or more stars (and one of the others probably deserves four in my book). American Idiot and 21st Century Breakdown are five stars, period. If AI isn’t the greatest punk record in history, it’s #2 by a whisker.

      So you show me a band that has produced that level of quality in that period of time that’s not “great.”

      • I can’t, Sam, and you know it. I have neither the depth of musical experience that you do nor the critical faculties required to do that when it comes to music. I have only my experience with a band and related bands upon which to base my vote. And my experience is that Green Day didn’t impress me until American Idiot. Might I feel differently about the rest of their music having appreciated AI? Maybe. But given that I no longer own any Green Day (my wife brought it into the marriage, and I think we donated it in the last move – I couldn’t put my fingers on it, regardless) beside AI, I’m not in a position to know. Unless you’re going to loan me your entire Green Day collection, that is.

        I will admit that I’m not entirely sure that Sisters of Mercy belongs here, but I voted for them anyway. Part of that is the fact that goth definitely does deserve to be represented in the tournament, and every band that’s even come close has gone down in flames, just as Sisters is about to. Whether that’s a failing of our voters or the tournament pods/seeds, both, or something else entirely I don’t know. Frankly, I’m hoping that there’s at least one goth group that isn’t going to be weeded out in the pods, but I’m not going to hold my breath.

  11. (my wife brought it into the marriage, and I think we donated it in the last move

    Oh. This is terrible.

    Unless you’re going to loan me your entire Green Day collection, that is.

    That’s doable.

    As for the Sisters, I think they belong here and I KNOW they deserve more credit than they’re going to get.

  12. I’m kind of stunned by the current vote tally. The two that I immediately wrote off are the two challenging GD. Go figure.

  13. I’m really kinda surprised by Palmer myself, and as much as I like Styx, I wouldn’t have given them a chance against Green Day.

    I don’t know Palmer’s history, but his popular stuff in the 1980s were fun (all the more so because the videos so offended my mom, which just made me watch them all the more), but not what I’d call groundbreaking. Not quite up to the overt sexuality of Aerosmith’s Rag Doll video, but I wasn’t a hormonal enough teen yet to appreciate the difference. 😉

  14. Finally Styx!!

    Yes, I really do like them. Some classic stuff that doesn’t sound any more dated than any of their contemporaries.

    Sisters of Mercy is probably the one that should move up, with Green Day also moving up.

    The Counting Crows? Really? I guess I missed something because I found them completely uninspiring.

    Robert Palmer is nice, but not the one to advance.

    I like Tool, but am afraid I’m not really very familiar with more than a couple songs.

    So in actual fact, my voting is coming down to Styx and Sisters of Mercy. I’ll decide when I scroll back up. Probably doesn’t matter though, I can’t see Green Day losing here, but I’ve been wrong before in this tourney.

  15. I’m slightly shocked at all the Green Day love here. American Idiot was a good album, and I think it’s worthy of it’s accolades, but they really didn’t break any new ground. Is it the fact that there a few songs that hit home to a lot of people here with regards to the previous administration and their followers? I enjoyed the album, but it wasn’t something I could listen to every day, maybe I just can’t get over the fake British accent.

  16. Sam rigged The Queen pod. Sam loves Queen….

    Sam rigged the Graham Parker pod. Sam loves Graham Parker….

    Sam rigged the Green Day pod. Sam loves Green Day.

    Anyone else seeing a pattern?

    Sam contacted me about adding Styx, Kansas, and some others we’ve added that I think don’t deserve to be here. Sorry, Mike, but Styx just doesn’t cut it for me. Had they shot DeYoung early on maybe….

    After the crowd voted Rush in over Steve Winwood, I despair for civilization.

    As for this pod:

    I like Green Day okay, but I don’t see them as the greats that many of you do. Clash = great. Green Day = wannabe Clash….

    Tool – important band – I can think of no more damning term….

    Styx – Here’s what I like about Styx – there’s this one drum roll in “Renegade,” right near the end of the song that’s cool. Beyond that….

    Sisters of Mercy – I just don’t do goth…

    Counting Crows – good band – that’s all…and that’s not quite enough….

    Robert Palmer – a fine, distinguished career, and those ’80’s records were fun…but not as important as he might have been….

    I still don’t know who I’ll vote for….

    • You may not do goth, Jim, but there’s no doubt that goth changed the face of rock and roll. Punk was all about rebellion against perceived excesses in rock and roll at the time. Goth is all about rebellion against society in general, and it opened up new topics and avenues of music for rock and roll to explore.

      If not one goth group makes it out of the pods, it’ll be a travesty.

  17. I’m with you, Jim. If Graham or GD should come up against any lesser artist than, say, Pink Floyd, we know the fix is on. 😉

    And if you don’t do goth, don’t fret. The Sisters don’t either. Apologies in advance for this tirade, I’m 3 1/2 glasses of chianti into a proper Friday night. If you find this regrettable, I probably will tomorrow as well.

    I kind of think of the Sisters as the American Bandstand of goth; i.e. it’s a different band every week. The reason was because Andrew Eldritch didn’t have any talent beyond programming a drum machine and hiding behind mirrored pilot sunglasses. Seriously.

    If you liked their early sound (“Alice”, “Floorshow”, etc), may I direct you to Gary Marx, the architect of that sound and his subsequent project: Ghost Dance. If “First and Last and Always” was more your speed, may I direct you to Wayne Hussey and his far superior band, the Mission U.K. Hell, his version of “Marian” was much better, albeit retitled “Wasteland”. If you thought Andrew’s Sisterhood project and the subsequent Sisters album “Floodland” was the shit, then you’ll really dig James Ray and the Performance – the principle contributor to that period. Finally, if you were a fan of the ironically named “Vision Thing” period, then you should really give Tony James and Sigue Sigue Sputnik a spin. Sure, by the last album, the Sisters had an established range and schtick, and to some degree, Tony was aping that, but still …

    So that’s it. The entire Sisters catalog can be summed up in four albums (for the record, those impotent slackers, Fiction 8, have recorded five albums in less than half the time — with day jobs to boot!), with four other artists responsible for the meat of the entire catalog. I have other insider information which I can’t disclose, but I feel strongly about this one. I respectfully ask that the Sisters be disqualified based on their complete absence of substance or original material.

    If you really need to throw a goth band or two into the mix, any of the following would stand head and shoulders above the Sisters:

    Red Lorry Yellow Lorry
    Fields of the Nephilim
    Rose of Avalanche
    The Mission U.K.
    Alien Sex Fiend

    • After a beer and two celebratory glasses of scotch (I finally got something at work done that I’ve been working on for almost 9 months, and it’s been a struggle), I’m pretty well past being offended, Mike. I too think that there’s better goth out there than Sisters. I’m just of the opinion that they were some of the originators of the genre, that the genre is too important not to be represented, and that the genre’s representatives here in ToR have drawn the short end of the stick each time they’ve come up thus far.

      My vote’s a protest vote as much as anything, since Sisters has no chance of winning.

  18. Jim’s been in the corn likker again. Sam likes a LOT of bands that aren’t being “rigged” into wins. And ask Jim about some of the last-minute revisions he was proposing the other day.

    In the end, Dr. Whistleblower there approved everything. So if you’re breaking out the pitchforks and torches, you’ll know whose house to head to.

    Mike: none of the bands I’m allegedly fixing for have gotten any big breaks so far and there won’t be any in the future, either. GP will square off against one of the greatest bands ever – and probably my second favorite band ever – in the Great 48. Should Green Day somehow manage to scrap past Styx they’ll be up against a band that they may not take a single vote off of.

    Just saying.

  19. fikshun – I actually kind of LIKE Mission UK and might have voted for them if they were in this pod instead of Sisters.

    Brian – See my comment to fikshun. I regret the wording of my comment on Sisters – I should have said I don’t follow goth – that would be a fairer assessment ….

    Sam – I am not the one who threw the pods back open and added bands.

    To all – It got so crazy trying to realign pods to balance them that I made a joke to Sam about creating a pod of all ’70’s groups to whit, the following in one pod:

    Steely Dan, Doobie Bros., Kansas, Sweet, Lynyrd Skynyrd, and Boston. Sam’s comment to me – how dare I accuse him of doing what he’s done (i.e., engineer pods to advance his faves) when I proposed such a line up.

    Would’ve freaked people out, though…. 😉

    • Ahem. If I might clarify for Jim a bit, we have in fact added a number of bands since the first pod was rolled out, and for a very simple reason. Since this is a big-ass process, we forgot some people. Then there were bands that came up in discussion and we figured well, if Band X is in, then we might as well toss them in, too. That necessitates a tad of load balancing since you can’t add two great bands you forgot in such a way that it gets lopsided.

      Now, if certain co-directors object to all this, we can go back and take these bands out. I mean, really, who needs Todd Rundgren anyway….

      Or we can just enjoy the chaos…. 🙂

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