Music/Popular Culture

Tournament of Rock – Legends: the NIN pod

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Results: For the second match in a row the seeded artist ran away and hid, as Gainesville’s non-football-related attraction, Tom Petty, lapped the field. The numbers: #10 Tom Petty/Heartbreakers 53%; Jeff Beck 23%; Bob Mould/Husker Du/Sugar 13%; Bauhaus 7%; Kiss 3%; Tears for Fears 0%. Petty advances to the Great 48.

Our quest for the greatest band of all time now moves over to the Red Rocks region, where the most popular industrial band of all time hosts a serious clash of styles.

Please give these fine artists a listen and register your vote below. Polls close at midnight on Sunday.

<br /> <a href=”http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1904007/” mce_href=”http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1904007/”>Which band/artist deserves to advance in the Tournament of Rock: Legends?</a><span style=”font-size:9px;” mce_style=”font-size:9px;”>(<a href=”http://www.polldaddy.com” mce_href=”http://www.polldaddy.com”>survey software</a>)</span><br />

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27 replies »

  2. This is probably a generational thing, but did I miss a memo somewhere? Aside from translating the Beatles for the disco set, what greatness did ELO bring the rock world? I like them. A fair number of great, catchy pop songs. And?

    If anything Jeff Lynne should probably be strung up by his privates for being possibly the first (and far from the last) to run compressors separately on all his tracks in a mix. “Don’t Bring Me Down” sounds full and loud and fun but is about as sonically dynamic as Stephen Wright on Valium. And unfortunately for the rest of us, record execs have had their producers over-compressing mixes ever since.

  4. Sheer brilliance…

    As a lover of classical music he certainly tickles the receptors in me.

  8. Count me among the “not a fan of industrial/goth” crew. Maybe it was too much John Lee Hooker as a kid, i don’t know…it’s just never found a sweet spot in my ear. But i’m also no fan of the Beatles, so you might imagine how i feel about ELO and it’s dream to be a discotastic version of every pop musician’s heroes. I’m a guy who can sing along with 90%+ of a Classic Rock station’s playlist, murdering or wholly rewording the songs i don’t like, but i’d rather sit in sullen silence than listen to ELO.

    Strange that Mountain isn’t getting any love…

    I feel roughly the same about Chicago as i do about ELO, only in this case i hear a group of white guys playing homage to black musicianship and sounding, well, very white (not Steely Dan white, but white).

    I always liked what Devo was trying to accomplish philosophically a lot more than their music.

    I’m going with Haitt: one of those people lost to being ignored in the music industry’s attempt to find the next Beatles and unappreciated by the consumer’s of America that Devo was skewering.

    • My collective issue with some of this – Jim and Lex mainly – is that in this contest I’m less concerned with what people LIKE than with what’s GREAT. Like is easily measured: what do you listen to more than anything else? By that standard my own voting would have been quite different in places, including THIS POD, where I would have voted for ELO, too. NIN isn’t always easy to listen to. For me they’re a lot like Nirvana – one of the greatest bands ever, but I have a hard time listening to them in more than small doses.

      If I were to vote like you guys are the rest of the way, it’s unlikely I’d ever cast a single vote for The Beatles. I like them just fine, but I like them less than many, many bands in this tournament.

  9. Wait, Sam, are you trying to say that what i like isn’t great? I can’t speak to the greatness of a group in a sub-genre of Rock that i’ve never really listened to. I’ve voted on “like” a few times, but only as a personal tie-breaker.

    I like Mountain more than Hiatt, but i voted for Hiatt. I will admit that i tend to reflexively dislike things that are popular (damned kids, get off my lawn). I’m skewed, so my votes probably are too. And since i’m more likely to put on a Fela Kuti or Boyoyo Boys album than one from most of the bands in the tournament i’m probably an extreme outlier.

  10. Lex: Hey, you voted for Hiatt, and Hiatt is worthy of the vote. My argument has more to do with the “taste” thing that seems to be seeping in a little here. It’s true, you can’t very well assess the critical merit of something you don’t know, and if you don’t know NIN and that genre very well that makes it tough.

    That said, what you LIKE and what is GREAT are different things, although you may well like what is great. If I stack my like list next to my critical list there’s some overlap, but not a huge amount. There are bands that my critical sense rates very highly that I don’t listen to much (and in some cases don’t like at all) and there are bands I listen to a lot that I know full well ain’t the second coming of Mozart.

    So my point, I suppose, is that in this pod it seems as though more people are voting the like than the critical evaluation. As I said above, I probably like ELO more than NIN, but in a million years I can’t make the argument that they’re a BETTER band.

  12. I have to admit, I’m not as familiar with John Hiatt as I would like to be. Mountain was good, especially live. They should have been more influential and better known than they were. For me, this was basically a two horse race between NIN & Devo. The influence NIN has cast over western culture over the last twenty years is subtle to some and obvious to others. Still, I have to pull some greatness away from them because of all the early help Reznor got from Skinny Puppy. How much of NIN’s staying power and effect is Trent Reznor’s ability to sort things out with a psychiatrist over a cup of Starbuck’s and how much of it is the indirect influence of Skinny Puppy? That’s a tough one.

    Devo started out great but had become a parody of themselves by 1984’s “Shout”. But that early greatness was great. Still, to be corporate rock such as they were in 1982 and have co-written a song with Reagan’s would-be assassin; to have single-handedly pulled Neil Young out of his country doldrums for “Rust Never Sleeps”; to have spawned all the music that has come since … I had to give it up for Devo.

  13. I was just being a sarcastic dick with my “what i like is great” comment. My comments and my votes have not always matched in the ToR; the former is about opinion, and while it has influenced the latter in some cases that is not always the case.

  14. How many more brackets to go? In the United States alone, there are still about 50 great classic bands we have yet to vote on.

  16. Sam, Lex, Mike, and I have discussed this extensively elsewhere. Let me distill:

    Sam is outraged that folks would vote for ELO over NIN. He makes the argument that NIN is greater, so we should “do the right thing” and vote for them.

    I voted for ELO because I find NIN unlistenable. Sam finds my position untenable.

    As for Devo and Mountain and John Hiatt, all are worthy members of the rock family – but in my opinion they are not significant enough members.

    Chicago went from decent imitators of Al Kooper’s brilliant Blood Sweat and Tears idea to execrable pop creators. They deserve no consideration.

    Both Lex and Sam think The Beatles are overrated. THAT is a matter of taste.

    Mike thinks ELO is great. THAT is a matter of taste.

    As I explained to Sam – who brought in the French Symbolist poets in an attempt to cloud the discussion, people are perfectly justified to vote according to taste. They may, upon reflection, regret their vote as I do mine in the last pod (chose Petty over Jeff Beck). But taste is not an invalid guide – it is not, however, a reliable one – as my example shows.

    Over time, greatness will out. As it did for Baudelaire and Mallarme, so it will for NIN – if they are indeed great. Losing in this tournament will not alter that.

  17. One other point: Fikshun’s explanation of his vote for Devo is brilliant. I recommend it as an example of well reasoned voting to all…..

  18. Dear gods – you could at least try to characterize my positions a little more accurately.

    Sam is outraged that folks would vote for ELO over NIN. He makes the argument that NIN is greater, so we should “do the right thing” and vote for them.

    You must be trolling here, because you know that’s not my argument. Nor am I “outraged.” I love ELO – in truth, I like them more than NIN – but I just can’t make a case that they’re more deserving on critical grounds. All the arguments I keep hearing against them, including yours, can’t seem to get past the “I don’t like it” issue. Well, fine, but we’re not billing this as everybody’s favorite band.

    You know these things, of course. You’re just being difficult.

    I voted for ELO because I find NIN unlistenable. Sam finds my position untenable.

    No, Sam doesn’t think that reason, as it’s stated, is worthy of the guy who taught me that taste and the critical faculty are not things to be confused with one another.

    Both Lex and Sam think The Beatles are overrated. THAT is a matter of taste.

    Errrm, would you point me (and our unsuspecting readers) to precisely where I said anything remotely like this? Because I’m just about 105% certain that I never said any such thing. I’ve never even thought any such thing.

    Mike thinks ELO is great. THAT is a matter of taste.

    Actually, the comments I read from Mike went beyond considerations of mere taste. I don’t agree with his assessment of ELO vs. NIN, but I’m not dismissing his thinking the way I might some others’, either.

    As I explained to Sam – who brought in the French Symbolist poets in an attempt to cloud the discussion, people are perfectly justified to vote according to taste. They may, upon reflection, regret their vote as I do mine in the last pod (chose Petty over Jeff Beck). But taste is not an invalid guide – it is not, however, a reliable one – as my example shows.

    Okay, Jim is either drunk, trolling, or he’s been kidnapped and these are the comments of an imposter. Taste is a valid justification for buying what you like, for going to see the bands you like, for listening to one CD instead of another, etc. However, it’s pure foolishness to pretend that taste and critical analysis are the same thing. If it is, then we need to go back real quick and add Britney and Celine to the pool.

    Over time, greatness will out. As it did for Baudelaire and Mallarme, so it will for NIN – if they are indeed great. Losing in this tournament will not alter that.

    Well, no, this contest ain’t gonna make or break any careers. In the end, it will tell us less about the bands than it will the voters and commenters.

  21. I actually like Nerf Herders version of Mr Blue Sky better. Not sure how many people took ELO serious. Chicago is kinda in the same boat as well. Both great bands, but their music doesn’t really age well.

    John Hiatt is one of those white guys that sounds black, although he’s not as smooth as Michael McDonald, he is pretty good. That being said he’s not large enough for legend status.

    Devo is one of the first bands that I can remember that made being nerdy cool. Their music did push boundaries, but there needs to be a point where being “different” doesn’t get so
    out of hand where it makes something completely unlistenable, which unfortunately a lot of their tunes are.

    What’s kinda funny about Mountain, is that I always thought of them as a band that had a few hits and didn’t really leave their mark. I’m finding that a lot of bands that are coming out today are sounding a lot like them, well at least their music sounds like “Mississippi Queen”.

    NIN: I know a lot of guys came before him, and I’m not sure how well this music will age, but of all these guys I think you can point to NIN as having the largest main stream influence on this type of music, and the largest influence in this pod.

    I went with NIN

  22. Hmm, I find it interesting that NIN are unlistenable. Funnily enough of the bands here they are the only other I know something of. Through the film The Crow, excellent by the way, and the people I live with. They are too heavy for me but I don’t hate them. In the interests of harmony and not wishing to go to war over them they were/are confined to headsets. As time goes by they are listened to less and less. Will they be more than a phase of youth and hardcore rebellion here…time will tell. I am guessing they will not be on the playlist as often down the years.

    My argument against their being greater than ELO is going to be about longevity and broad appeal. ELO/Jeff are still very, very popular. Jeff was ahead of his time with his innovative techniques, and highly listenable. Who can feel miserable or sulk when ELO comes on? But the vote is for ELO and Jeff. Jeff has gone on to be a phenomenal record producer, voted no 4 of the greatest ever by the Washington Times. Jeff Lynne was ahead of his time and he and ELO were one of the great supergroups of the 70s and racked up a considerable number of hits and success worldwide. He further enhanced this legacy with further song writing, the Wilburys and his role of music producer.

    NIN…great sort of (particularly to a set of the very young), less mass appeal in comparison to ELO and if it is numbers that carriers your music through to the next generation provding ‘stickability’ then ELO/Jeff is just that. He is a legend over 30 years later. His music has lasted.

    …maybe there is something to be said for taste and swimming in the mainstream by not taking your inspiration from the sewer and coupling it with twisted and tortured sounds, voices and imagery.

    Music is food for the soul – to raise one up. NIN wants to nail my soul to the cross.

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