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	<title>Comments for Scholars and Rogues</title>
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	<description>Think - it ain&#039;t illegal yet...</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 20 Jun 2013 00:07:13 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Has military intervention by the US become, by definition, a mistake? by wilywascal</title>
		<link>http://scholarsandrogues.com/2013/06/14/has-intervention-by-the-united-states-become-by-definition-a-mistake/#comment-179985</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wilywascal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jun 2013 00:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarsandrogues.com/?p=82221#comment-179985</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Overcoming the knee-jerk reaction using logic may enable one&#039;s heart to reside in the same place as one&#039;s intellect. Thus, my heart tells me that instigating, encouraging or supporting violent overthrows of government and civil wars is rarely in the best interests of the people of that state. Violence often just begets more violence, which can lead to a vicious circle. 

Palestinian militant&#039;s use of violence hasn&#039;t helped the righteous cause of Palestinians. Our illegal armed invasion and its subsequent unleashing of sectarian violence in Iraq apparently killed more innocents than all the years of Saddam&#039;s rule, not even counting how our questionable use of sanctions preceding that also resulted in inflicting a great many more deaths and untold misery among the populace. Trying to fit simple solutions to complex problems generally isn&#039;t a good recipe. We must accept there are seldom any easy answers. What happens to Syrians not guilty of any real crime but supporting their government? Will they be unduly punished, as were Iraqi&#039;s? Additionally, it would be best if government openly and honestly acknowledges and weighs risks, keeping the public fully informed on the pros and cons of all possible options.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Overcoming the knee-jerk reaction using logic may enable one&#8217;s heart to reside in the same place as one&#8217;s intellect. Thus, my heart tells me that instigating, encouraging or supporting violent overthrows of government and civil wars is rarely in the best interests of the people of that state. Violence often just begets more violence, which can lead to a vicious circle. </p>
<p>Palestinian militant&#8217;s use of violence hasn&#8217;t helped the righteous cause of Palestinians. Our illegal armed invasion and its subsequent unleashing of sectarian violence in Iraq apparently killed more innocents than all the years of Saddam&#8217;s rule, not even counting how our questionable use of sanctions preceding that also resulted in inflicting a great many more deaths and untold misery among the populace. Trying to fit simple solutions to complex problems generally isn&#8217;t a good recipe. We must accept there are seldom any easy answers. What happens to Syrians not guilty of any real crime but supporting their government? Will they be unduly punished, as were Iraqi&#8217;s? Additionally, it would be best if government openly and honestly acknowledges and weighs risks, keeping the public fully informed on the pros and cons of all possible options.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Republicans perpetuate myths to keep Cold War alive by Frank Dilatush</title>
		<link>http://scholarsandrogues.com/2013/06/19/republicans-perpetuate-myths-to-keep-cold-war-alive/#comment-179964</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frank Dilatush]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarsandrogues.com/?p=82281#comment-179964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Israelis might dispute your foundation argument Russ. Iron Dome is by most reports a very functional short range missile defense system.  

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130331/DEFFEAT05/303310011/Cold-War-Mentality?odyssey=nav%7Chead]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Israelis might dispute your foundation argument Russ. Iron Dome is by most reports a very functional short range missile defense system.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130331/DEFFEAT05/303310011/Cold-War-Mentality?odyssey=nav%7Chead" rel="nofollow">http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130331/DEFFEAT05/303310011/Cold-War-Mentality?odyssey=nav%7Chead</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on The Galileo Fallacy: introducing Climate Illogic, a new series unmasking illogical claims made against climate science by My final word on Oakwood? &#124; Lack of Environment</title>
		<link>http://scholarsandrogues.com/2013/06/03/introducing-climate-illogic-galileo-weak-analogy/#comment-179958</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[My final word on Oakwood? &#124; Lack of Environment]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 10:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarsandrogues.com/?p=82007#comment-179958</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] theScholars and Rogues website, Brian Angliss has started a good series of posts on this subject here. In a nutshell, climate sceptics are like the medieval Catholic Church – they are the ones [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] theScholars and Rogues website, Brian Angliss has started a good series of posts on this subject here. In a nutshell, climate sceptics are like the medieval Catholic Church – they are the ones [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Has military intervention by the US become, by definition, a mistake? by wilywascal</title>
		<link>http://scholarsandrogues.com/2013/06/14/has-intervention-by-the-united-states-become-by-definition-a-mistake/#comment-179956</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wilywascal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 10:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarsandrogues.com/?p=82221#comment-179956</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent summary.

 1) You weren&#039;t the only one giving money. The U.S. supported bin Laden, the leader of the group responsible for 9/11. I opposed the illegal US invasion of Iraq, yet also strongly oppose *support* for repressive regimes and states with unpopular forms of government. We should encourage democracy, but still support the peoples will in their choice of government, with the understanding that progressive values often take time to develop and can involve many wrong turns along the way.  
2) Precisely. Another prime example of our Israeli driven foreign policy. Intervention in Syria, but no non-military intervention for the 3/4 million Palestinians ethnically cleansed and still denied return, or their institutionalized oppression by Israel--both ongoing for 65 years now. This, despite the injustice that has been perpetuated being a key driver of radicalization and instability in the region, and a key contributing factor threatening our own security.
 3) Mostly agree, with the proviso there is a moral imperative to stop genocide or ethnic cleansing, which should be done in conjunction with broad international support.
 4) Mostly agree. While strongly favoring secularism, a non-secular government could prove to be a vast improvement over the previous one. Also, as pointed out before in #1, the choice of the people should be respected. In the case of Syria, this seems highly dubious, however. Syria apparently had a fairly stable society before this civil war.
 5) Mostly agree. As primarily a non-interventionist, one still shouldn&#039;t become so confined to an ideology as to be blinded. While questioning some of the tactics used against Serbia, it seems clear our intervention there was preferable to the alternative. I would argue that military intervention should be seen as a last resort of last resorts, have broad support nationally and internationally, and have very strong justification, more along the lines of altruistic obligation rather than solely or primarily self interest. Ideally, like the author, a stronger international body would be preferable.
 6) Strongly agree. Obviously, Obama has largely turned his back on progressives in a number of areas, proving to be a huge disappointment. Nevertheless, while I would have liked a more progressive candidate in the first place, it boiled down to the lesser of two evils in the last two elections. Even with foreknowledge, I&#039;d still be forced to make the same choice. But I hear you, brother. 

Let me add to this list one additional item.

7) I have no love whatsoever for Assad, but what strikes me about Syria is that the victims there are merely pawns cynically used by the U.S. It seems apparent that it isn&#039;t the innocents suffering there that we truly care about; it is for the citizens of its neighbor, Israel, where the concern actually resides. If we were genuinely concerned for the well-being of all Syrians, we wouldn&#039;t be adding fuel to the fire, as we have been directly, and indirectly through proxies like Saudi Arabia. Instead, we&#039;d have been applying heavy pressure on all parties involved to put an immediate end to this civil war as soon as it became clear this would be a protracted and bloody affair. Ironically, Syria amounts to little more than a nuisance to Israel; they pose no actual existential threat, nor will they any time in the near future. Moreover, unless some kind of puppet government is installed, what good reason to think any new Syrian government will feel any friendlier towards Israel?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent summary.</p>
<p> 1) You weren&#8217;t the only one giving money. The U.S. supported bin Laden, the leader of the group responsible for 9/11. I opposed the illegal US invasion of Iraq, yet also strongly oppose *support* for repressive regimes and states with unpopular forms of government. We should encourage democracy, but still support the peoples will in their choice of government, with the understanding that progressive values often take time to develop and can involve many wrong turns along the way.<br />
2) Precisely. Another prime example of our Israeli driven foreign policy. Intervention in Syria, but no non-military intervention for the 3/4 million Palestinians ethnically cleansed and still denied return, or their institutionalized oppression by Israel&#8211;both ongoing for 65 years now. This, despite the injustice that has been perpetuated being a key driver of radicalization and instability in the region, and a key contributing factor threatening our own security.<br />
 3) Mostly agree, with the proviso there is a moral imperative to stop genocide or ethnic cleansing, which should be done in conjunction with broad international support.<br />
 4) Mostly agree. While strongly favoring secularism, a non-secular government could prove to be a vast improvement over the previous one. Also, as pointed out before in #1, the choice of the people should be respected. In the case of Syria, this seems highly dubious, however. Syria apparently had a fairly stable society before this civil war.<br />
 5) Mostly agree. As primarily a non-interventionist, one still shouldn&#8217;t become so confined to an ideology as to be blinded. While questioning some of the tactics used against Serbia, it seems clear our intervention there was preferable to the alternative. I would argue that military intervention should be seen as a last resort of last resorts, have broad support nationally and internationally, and have very strong justification, more along the lines of altruistic obligation rather than solely or primarily self interest. Ideally, like the author, a stronger international body would be preferable.<br />
 6) Strongly agree. Obviously, Obama has largely turned his back on progressives in a number of areas, proving to be a huge disappointment. Nevertheless, while I would have liked a more progressive candidate in the first place, it boiled down to the lesser of two evils in the last two elections. Even with foreknowledge, I&#8217;d still be forced to make the same choice. But I hear you, brother. </p>
<p>Let me add to this list one additional item.</p>
<p>7) I have no love whatsoever for Assad, but what strikes me about Syria is that the victims there are merely pawns cynically used by the U.S. It seems apparent that it isn&#8217;t the innocents suffering there that we truly care about; it is for the citizens of its neighbor, Israel, where the concern actually resides. If we were genuinely concerned for the well-being of all Syrians, we wouldn&#8217;t be adding fuel to the fire, as we have been directly, and indirectly through proxies like Saudi Arabia. Instead, we&#8217;d have been applying heavy pressure on all parties involved to put an immediate end to this civil war as soon as it became clear this would be a protracted and bloody affair. Ironically, Syria amounts to little more than a nuisance to Israel; they pose no actual existential threat, nor will they any time in the near future. Moreover, unless some kind of puppet government is installed, what good reason to think any new Syrian government will feel any friendlier towards Israel?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Has military intervention by the US become, by definition, a mistake? by Frank Dilatush</title>
		<link>http://scholarsandrogues.com/2013/06/14/has-intervention-by-the-united-states-become-by-definition-a-mistake/#comment-179941</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frank Dilatush]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarsandrogues.com/?p=82221#comment-179941</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And while decent men argue morality and honor, war mongers arrange for French man portable missiles to be delivered surreptitiously through the Saudis to the rebels for some future undisclosed quid pro quo.

Reminds me of Ollie North and the Stinger missiles we snuck into Afghanistan for our pals the Mujaheddin, who later of course became our declared enemy the Taliban. I&#039;m with Sam, let us remove ourselves from the sandbox, no good can come from our tarrying there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And while decent men argue morality and honor, war mongers arrange for French man portable missiles to be delivered surreptitiously through the Saudis to the rebels for some future undisclosed quid pro quo.</p>
<p>Reminds me of Ollie North and the Stinger missiles we snuck into Afghanistan for our pals the Mujaheddin, who later of course became our declared enemy the Taliban. I&#8217;m with Sam, let us remove ourselves from the sandbox, no good can come from our tarrying there.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When it comes to judging America for its sins, God is an absolute doofus by A Walkaway</title>
		<link>http://scholarsandrogues.com/2013/06/14/when-it-comes-to-judging-america-for-its-sins-god-is-an-absolute-doofus/#comment-179931</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A Walkaway]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2013 16:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarsandrogues.com/?p=82230#comment-179931</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Then Satan must care more about justice and truth than God.  

The &quot;Good Christians&quot; have been the bane of our existence and are the terror of a lot of decent people I know... for doing things to non-Christians and people who don&#039;t go along with their politics - like arson (they torched my workshop), poisoning pets (at least three of our kitties - and this is a common practice), blocking employment (or getting innocent people fired for things they didn&#039;t do), slander, libel, you name it.  Even attempted murder isn&#039;t above them... a woman we know had her house shot up a few weeks ago just because she&#039;s a pagan and there are plenty of examples of them committing crimes against the people they hate or who resist their attempts to force their ersatz &quot;Christianity&quot; on others (plenty of evidence that the Christianity practiced isn&#039;t what he intended).

I don&#039;t think Jesus would agree with punishing the poor, or ranting at the sick and suffering (e.g. &quot;YOU BROUGHT IT ON YOURSELF BY YOUR SINS!&quot;).

The &quot;Good Christians&quot; insist that their lies are truth and that everyone else is lying... even when faced with the evidence of the evil they&#039;ve done or the evidence that others are telling truth, they still insist they&#039;re doing God&#039;s will and have &quot;deh TROOF!&quot;

God doesn&#039;t punish people by bringing disasters on everyone.  A &quot;God&quot; who punishes the innocent isn&#039;t fit to be called by that name.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then Satan must care more about justice and truth than God.  </p>
<p>The &#8220;Good Christians&#8221; have been the bane of our existence and are the terror of a lot of decent people I know&#8230; for doing things to non-Christians and people who don&#8217;t go along with their politics &#8211; like arson (they torched my workshop), poisoning pets (at least three of our kitties &#8211; and this is a common practice), blocking employment (or getting innocent people fired for things they didn&#8217;t do), slander, libel, you name it.  Even attempted murder isn&#8217;t above them&#8230; a woman we know had her house shot up a few weeks ago just because she&#8217;s a pagan and there are plenty of examples of them committing crimes against the people they hate or who resist their attempts to force their ersatz &#8220;Christianity&#8221; on others (plenty of evidence that the Christianity practiced isn&#8217;t what he intended).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Jesus would agree with punishing the poor, or ranting at the sick and suffering (e.g. &#8220;YOU BROUGHT IT ON YOURSELF BY YOUR SINS!&#8221;).</p>
<p>The &#8220;Good Christians&#8221; insist that their lies are truth and that everyone else is lying&#8230; even when faced with the evidence of the evil they&#8217;ve done or the evidence that others are telling truth, they still insist they&#8217;re doing God&#8217;s will and have &#8220;deh TROOF!&#8221;</p>
<p>God doesn&#8217;t punish people by bringing disasters on everyone.  A &#8220;God&#8221; who punishes the innocent isn&#8217;t fit to be called by that name.</p>
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		<title>Comment on When it comes to judging America for its sins, God is an absolute doofus by RetroHound</title>
		<link>http://scholarsandrogues.com/2013/06/14/when-it-comes-to-judging-america-for-its-sins-god-is-an-absolute-doofus/#comment-179929</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RetroHound]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2013 14:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarsandrogues.com/?p=82230#comment-179929</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[See, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s God&#039;s judgement, it&#039;s Satan acting as &quot;Prince of this world&quot; trying to take out Christians.  But, California does get hit occasionally with fires and earthquakes and mud slides and whatnot.

And I usually hear that it&#039;s abortion that will bring about God&#039;s judgement, not gays, but that&#039;s just the people I run with.  I don&#039;t watch TV, so I miss a lot of the Media Christians and their &quot;interpretations.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s God&#8217;s judgement, it&#8217;s Satan acting as &#8220;Prince of this world&#8221; trying to take out Christians.  But, California does get hit occasionally with fires and earthquakes and mud slides and whatnot.</p>
<p>And I usually hear that it&#8217;s abortion that will bring about God&#8217;s judgement, not gays, but that&#8217;s just the people I run with.  I don&#8217;t watch TV, so I miss a lot of the Media Christians and their &#8220;interpretations.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on S&amp;R Nonfiction: &#8220;The Nobodies,&#8221; by Jennifer Pocock by Ben Leib</title>
		<link>http://scholarsandrogues.com/2013/06/17/scholars-and-rogues-nonfiction-the-nobodies-by-jennifer-pocock/#comment-179917</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ben Leib]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2013 08:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarsandrogues.com/?p=82048#comment-179917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Beautifully penned.  The desperation of the situation is evident, as is your devotion to the children you&#039;ve parented.  Thank you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beautifully penned.  The desperation of the situation is evident, as is your devotion to the children you&#8217;ve parented.  Thank you.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Has military intervention by the US become, by definition, a mistake? by Russ Wellen</title>
		<link>http://scholarsandrogues.com/2013/06/14/has-intervention-by-the-united-states-become-by-definition-a-mistake/#comment-179906</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Russ Wellen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jun 2013 17:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarsandrogues.com/?p=82221#comment-179906</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fundamentally, I agree with both of you. It&#039;s just that it really requires me to go with my head over my heart.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fundamentally, I agree with both of you. It&#8217;s just that it really requires me to go with my head over my heart.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Has military intervention by the US become, by definition, a mistake? by Samuel Smith</title>
		<link>http://scholarsandrogues.com/2013/06/14/has-intervention-by-the-united-states-become-by-definition-a-mistake/#comment-179905</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Samuel Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jun 2013 17:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarsandrogues.com/?p=82221#comment-179905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think this about sums it up. You have both moral and practical issues, and neither endorses intervention (at least not in a resource-constrained world).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this about sums it up. You have both moral and practical issues, and neither endorses intervention (at least not in a resource-constrained world).</p>
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