Category: RaceCrime

With Zimmerman verdict, Florida court upholds Negro-hunting; Southern gun owners celebrate #NSFW

Trayvon / ZimmermanLeAnna Munro, local Ocala, Florida chapter president of the National Gun Rights Association, today issued the following statement in reaction to the Zimmerman verdict:

“Today is a great day in the battle for the civil rights of gun owners and hunters. Once again, for the first time in almost 50 years, it is legal to hunt Negroes in Florida. Negro hunting was clearly envisaged by the Founding Fathers in Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the United States Constitution, the so-called ‘three-fifths compromise.’ By making it clear that the lives of Negroes were less than that of whites and in concert with the Second Amendment, it is clear they intended the sport of Negro hunting to be a basic right of the American people.

Negro hunting was legal and popular in Florida from 1513 until 1865. After 1865, although technically illegal, Negro hunting remained popular through ‘lynching parties’ until the mid-1960’s, despite numerous attempts by Northerners to infringe on our rights, such as the Dyer bill. Now once again, Floridians, and indeed all Southerners, can enjoy a sport integral to our heritage and one of our most precious rights under the Constitution.

It is a great day for Floridians!

However, there is much work to be done. There is still the issue of Indian hunting, which has an even longer and more honorable history in the state, as well as the matter of regulations and quotas. We support responsible hunting regulations with limits and seasons, much like deer and alligator resources are managed today. It would be tragic if this victory were to lead to over-hunting and the extinction of Negroes. We must not deprive our children and grandchildren of this wonderful part of their heritage.”

This is not the first time Ms. Munro has been in the national news. In 2008, her testimony was critical to the conviction of her neighbor Willie Randolph for animal cruelty for drowning an unwanted litter of puppies. Mr. Randolph is now serving eight years in the correctional institution at Raiford.

41 comments on “With Zimmerman verdict, Florida court upholds Negro-hunting; Southern gun owners celebrate #NSFW

  1. It would have been nice to see insightful commentary by “Otherwise” on the copied post, and the actual court situation at hand. Then we would be able to discuss what “Otherwise” is bringing to the table with regards to thoughts, ideas, emotions and solutions.

      • wow. just went to your website and saw your piece on george wallace. you’re certainly an independent thinker, i’ll give you that. not such a great one or such a great writer, but different.

  2. Not to confuse parody with parable Otherwise, but since George Zimmerman has a black great grandfather in his lineage wouldn’t the one drop rule that is part of the dark heritage you describe above place him with the hunted rather than the hunters?

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-04-25/news/sns-rt-us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmermanbre83o18h-20120425_1_pit-bull-pepper-spray-big-boi

    Actually I think he will be hunted now, or at the very least haunted, and therein is proof for the parable of ignorance being it’s own reward.

    • Well, I read a stat once that said 80% of multigenerational white southerners and 100% of blacks have some degree of race mixing, for obvious reasons.

      My great grandmother was black, and I can tell you that no one is more racist than my aunts and cousins. Once you cross the tracks, you don’t look back.

      I don’t know anything about Zimmerman or his Peruvian heritage, but one thing that’s always struck me as I travel S. America is the number of ex-Nazis that are there. I’ve been to parties in Porto Allegre is red headed and fair skinned and the first words out of their mouths are, “Hi, my dad came over in 1920.” I’ve met Rudolfo’s, Benito’s, and even and Adolfo. And the top security firm in Lima is Schmidt Security, whose logo is two lightning strikes. Really. Who has any idea what Zimmerman’s real heritage is or if it matters?

      I think he will be feted.

      • Oh Heysoos, I hope not Otherwise. If the NRA starts parading him around on a promotional tour that would cure me of them. Regardless of mixed DNA, Zimmerman is a brute who abused a great responsibility and we’re all now poorer for it.

        Not arguing the German thing either, but it’s a French, Italian, and Belgian thing as well. The Americas and Africa were new frontier and freedom for many itchy footed Europeans during colonial days. Cheap/slave labor and free land if you’d work it just like our West, it attracted masses looking for breathing room and wealth. My Grandmother was French Brazilian long before French women began sporting Brazilians

        The Nazi’s came later to already established imperialist colonies.

        • Frank

          You’re right. It’s a little hard to converse above the braying. (and my Nazi tangent wasnt particularly helpful either–just came to mind.)

          But I am a responsibility sort of guy. Assume the best for Zimmerman. He was within his rights to brace Martin. Martin attacked him and he was in fear for his life and fired in self-defense. Nonetheless, he ignored police instructions and was carrying a loaded gun. A boy died. He should take responsibility for that.

          I once thought I’d killed someone in a drunken hit and run and went and turned myself in.

          Having said that, Russ reports that Zimmerman had a history of violence and police charges, so I doubt my best case is the real case. Still, even under the best case, he should take responsibility for an irresponsible action which resulted in the death of another person.

        • BTW, thanks for keeping it on topic and your intellectual integrity. I consider your comments carefully.

  3. Florida needs to answer for this one. At what point do we start considering removing states from our union? Do Florida, North Carolina, Texas, and Arizona really deserve to be one of us?

    • Well, I want to know what you would do if a bigger stronger person on top of you beating your head against the ground and hitting you in the face? I would think that my life was in grave danger and fight back with best tool I had.

      • You’re aggressively missing the point. That big strong guy wouldn’t be on top of you beating the shit out of you if you hadn’t racially profiled him and stalked him with a gun and confronted him in the first place because you were an ignorant racist cop wannabe. You don’t get to plead self defense when YOU STARTED IT.

        • Please share with us the missing piece of evidence you have to prove Zimmerman started it. It would have been good of you to share with the jury as well

        • This question is beyond silly. No one contradicts that Zimmerman followed Martin around. They may or may not like the word “stalked,” but it is a technically accurate description of what happened.

          Had Zimmerman not stalked a black kid in a way he certainly wouldn’t have stalked a white kid, Martin would be alive today.

        • I’ll overlook the fact I didn’t ask a question (well, not really) to observe you have added no value to this discussion. I was really hoping you had the “smoking gun” evidence the state was so obviously missing to prove Zimmerman guilty.

        • it is perfectly legal, perfectly moral, and reasonable to follow someone who you do not know in your neighborhood and see what they are up to. Your characterization of the above as “stalking” is simply incorrect.

        • Conversation amidst hubris is a trick I’m certain you’ve orchestrated, let alone mastered Sam. So if we may continue while unsettled donkeys bray and the cold wind of reality blows through the tattered shrouds of dead men’s bones?

          I agree Zimmerman made a gross error in judgement. Stupidity that results in another human’s death is absolutely chargeable as manslaughter. I also give you that “subdued” was an incorrect choice of terms on my part. “Scared shitless” better fits my perception of Zimmerman’s mindset the last few moments before he punctured Martin’s left ventricle with 115 grains of copper clad lead..

          For your position I would ask as J Stephen asked of me, “How can you be so sure?” ….that Zimmerman was stalking with intent to kill rather than actually looking for a house number while he tried to keep an eye on the “punk”? Hunters don’t leave their guns cased when prey is near and a street smart kid wouldn’t fuck with an angry man with a gun.

          All you know is what I know and it’s certainly not everything the jurors saw, If your point which you’ve repeated several times truly is, “You don’t get to plead self defense when YOU STARTED IT” .then what’s left to discuss since that is purely a feeling easily disputed by significant case law?

          Six women, five of them mothers, looked at the facts in both positive and negative light over an extended period of time and found for the defendant. Can you at least admit the remote possibility that justice was served as best it could be served in this sometimes least logical of all possible worlds?

        • I don’t think he was stalking with the intent to kill. I think he was stalking because he didn’t like the idea of a negro in his neighborhood. He undoubtedly though that Martin was up to no good. You know, in a way that he wouldn’t have thought it of a white kid.

  4. Fashionable left-liberals are great at alienating the erstwhile populists of the white working class in ways which push it back into the greedy arms of the plutocrats. Nice job!

    • Yes. The liberals are the reason the white working class is so happy to sell itself to pandering plutocrats. It has nothing to do with centuries of ignorance and racism.

      On second thought, though, you may be right. That white working class you’re talking about, especially in the South, made a mad dash to the Right in response to a by specific liberal action. It was in the mid-’60s and it sought to ensure that blacks were accorded equal rights under the law.

      And don’t try to tell me that isn’t what happened, because I was right in the thick of it. I didn’t fully understand the dynamic at the time, but it was more than clear in my house that we were switching to the GOP because of how the Democrats were cozying up to the niggers.

      If insisting on justice drives certain folks into the arms of the plutocrats, that’s the price I’m going to have to pay. Because the alternative is to welcome ignorance and racism into my own tent in the spirit of compromise. Thanks, but no thanks.

      • I’d add a tad to this, Sam. That dash came as a result of Nixon’s “Southern Strategy.” He promised not to enforce civil rights law in the South if they’d support him for Prez. So it’s that beacon of the Party of Lincoln who really made the South’s “right turn” a reality – as a political deal to let the racists come back out of their hidey-holes in return for their votes…. And since, the Republican Party has had to stay in bed with the closeted (and open) sheet wearers to “strengthen their base.”

  5. 3/5ths was what the Northern colonies required, they didnt want representatives based upon the actual population of persons (Southern states wanted), so they created the 3/5ths.

    • That’s a reading, Robert – the “northern colonies” wanted FREE people counted and were still trying to coax the southern colonies into abolishing slavery – the southern colonies wanted slaves counted for representational apportionment – but they did not want them to have any civil rights. That’s also a valid reading – and closer to the truth of the politics of the 1787 Constitutional Convention….

  6. When I first read this post I thought it over the top a bit. Maybe more than a bit. Then I saw the interview with juror b37 and now I am not so sure.

    One point (e pluribus unum): I have heard people talk differently than I do and have stereotyped them in many ways, ignorant, stupid, Southern, Boston, Michigan, English teacher — but I have never heard an accent that made me think a person was a liar. b37 said Rachel Jeantel was not credible because she had trouble understanding her. Really? Wow.

  7. It’s not just me that’s pissed off

    http://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/tv-news/-the-wire–creator-david-simon-on-trayvon-martin-case—ashamed–to-be-an-american-011408813.html

    David Simon (John W. Ferguson/Getty Images)The not-guilty verdict for George Zimmerman in the death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin has outraged many people across the country, including “The Wire” creator David Simon.

    In an emotional, fiery post on his blog, The Audacity of Despair, Simon denounced the verdict, saying he was “ashamed to call himself an American.”

    Simon knows a little something about race. He worked for 12 years as a crime reporter in Baltimore, witnessing firsthand the despair referenced in his blog title. He then channeled that knowledge to write nuanced, complex portrayals of race, drugs, poverty, violence, and corruption on series like “Homicide: Life on the Street,” “The Corner,” and “The Wire.”

    [Related: Zimmerman Juror B37 Decides Not to Go For That Book Deal After All]

    From 2002-2005 on “The Wire,” Simon and his team of writers depicted the often deadly consequences for young black men living within the broken education, political, and justice systems. The series was lauded as an American storytelling masterpiece, inspired professors to teach about it in college classes, and was recently named the No. 1 series of all time by Entertainment Weekly.

    Outside of his television writing, Simon often comments on social issues, and the Martin case stirred up particularly forceful feelings in him. Here’s the entirety of his post:

    “You can stand your ground if you’re white, and you can use a gun to do it. But if you stand your ground with your fists and you’re black, you’re dead.

    In the state of Florida, the season on African-Americans now runs year round. Come one, come all. And bring a handgun. The legislators are fine with this blood on their hands. The governor, too. One man accosted another and when it became a fist fight, one man — and one man only — had a firearm. The rest is racial rationalization and dishonorable commentary.

    If I were a person of color in Florida, I would pick up a brick and start walking toward that courthouse in Sanford. Those that do not, those that hold the pain and betrayal inside and somehow manage to resist violence — these citizens are testament to a stoic tolerance that is more than the rest of us deserve. I confess, their patience and patriotism is well beyond my own.

    Behold, the lewd, pornographic embrace of two great American pathologies: Race and guns, both of which have conspired not only to take the life of a teenager, but to make that killing entirely permissible. I can’t look an African-American parent in the eye for thinking about what they must tell their sons about what can happen to them on the streets of their country. Tonight, anyone who truly understands what justice is and what it requires of a society is ashamed to call himself an American.”

  8. I’m amazed that even with a White House on down political push to railroad Zimmerman that the justice system still worked. Despite a biased judge and a vengeful prosecutor 6 citizens did their duty and unanimously agreed the state had not proven its case.

    Here’s one potential example of the suppression of exculpatory evidence http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/16/us-usa-florida-shooting-lawsuit-idUSBRE96F1EL20130716

    Race and guns aren’t the problem Otherwise, the unintended consequences of social programs that hold people down rather than giving them a hand up is the problem. I don’t know the answer but I suspect it lies in reducing poverty.

    • the judge was biased all right. over at huffpo, prof. alafair burke points out that the judge gave the jury wrong instructions that favored the defense.

      and you’re right, race and guns arent the problem. racists who own guns are.

      railroad zimmerman? frank, that’s just fucking despicable.

        • I think an internet troll is the lowest form of digital life Sam. I’ve been clear all along that in my estimation Zimmerman deserved a manslaughter conviction and some time in the pokey to cool his heels and think about what he’d done, and that he absolutely should never be allowed to own a firearm again. You folks swayed me to that middle ground from a more conservative stance.

          Conversely I have not once heard any of the regulars here mention the jewelry, the burglary tools, the significant possibility that Martin, rather than calling the cops and running home when he felt threatened instead decided to waylay the creepy crapper and liberate his stuff. Never a whiff or hint that any of you see the remotest possibility that Martin had a hand in his own demise.

          That is ignorant and one sided. This site promotes the advice “Think, it’s not illegal yet” and I propose ladies and gentlemen that on this topic there is a remarkable lack of thinking going on.

          Sway me with logic and facts if you can, but you will not baffle me with bullshit.

        • Frank, you’re conducting an apologia that has no relevance to this case. Here’s why. Even if Martin had been a serial killer, the president of the local Crips and packing a dagger laced with Black Mamba venom, NONE OF IT would have been remotely evident to Zimmerman, who had a habit of dialing 911 every time he saw a black person. He stalked Martin in a way that would have made the noblest soul among us jumpy. Seriously – if you were walking through an all-black neighborhood and realized you were being followed by a black man, mightn’t you start thinking that you were in danger and looking around for ways of standing your ground?

          Much of that was rhetorical, of course. You’re on record with how you see the facts of the case. We all seem to agree that Zimmerman belongs in jail. Manslaughter or 2nd degree we can debate, but none of us are advocating that he was innocent. Great. The part I simply don’t get is your use of “railroad.” All I saw was a concern that a fair trial might be hard to come by, and I think we all agree that the end result proves we were right.

          As for “troll,” we do use that term more casually around here sometimes. Last week you admitted to playing “devil’s advocate,” and when Otherwise has done that I’ve accused him of trolling. So that wasn’t intended as the insult you might have read it as. Sorry about that.

        • One more quick add. I do not know what Trayvon was up to that day. Enjoying his Skittles? Plotting a crime spree? There’s certainly nothing like actionable evidence that he was a criminal, even if there are bits of circumstantial data that make you ask the question.

          Regardless, that is at most a separate question. It is not relevant to THIS question, which is whether or not Zimmerman ought to have been found guilty and whether or not Martin is dead because he’s black.

          And that doesn’t mean I’m dismissing the second question, either. I freely admit that there have been times where I looked at a crime, considered the victim, and was unable to work up a scrap of remorse for his/her demise. It’s just that conflating the two creates confusion and muddies our consideration about the question that the post is dedicated to.

          Does that make sense?

    • This is a bit disappointing.

      “…6 citizens did their duty and unanimously agreed the state had not proven its case.” As did the jurors in the Michael Morton case except they determined the state had proven its case.

      ” the unintended consequences of social programs that hold people down rather than giving them a hand up is the problem. I don’t know the answer but I suspect it lies in reducing poverty.” This strikes me as a total non sequitur and a red herring. Did anyone every talk about Trayvon or George being victims of poverty or misguided social programs? I missed it if they did. Are we to debate social welfare when a grown middle class man shoots and kills a middle class child.

      George Zimmerman should be in prison. When he got out of that car and followed Trayvon, everything that followed was on George. Did he think he was fighting for his life? Possibly. But what if Trayvon was in fear of his life? What if Trayvon had had a gun, shot George and argued he was in fear of his life because this guy was stalking him through the shadows. Is that okay? The altercation is on George.

      Is it the jury’s fault? Perhaps not but I am far less certain after hearing b37. The prosecutors didn’t want to prosecute; did they bring their A game? Why 2nd degree murder — seems clear to me they didn’t have a chance at that. Why did witnesses for the prosecution end up witnesses for the defense. Why wasn’t George arrested for 44 days? He was determined innocent by the criminal justice system in Sanford from the get go.

      I agree their should be a serious analysis of everything that happened; a child is dead because because a grown man followed him through the shadows and took a gun to a fist fight. George Zimmerman should be in jail.

      • Hello Fnay, I believe the non sequitur is the headline above suggesting that a Hispanic shooting a Black has somehow opened the hunting season in Florida for Whites to shoot Blacks. Let us agree as a basic framework for discussion that no one should be shooting anyone without a damn good reason and Zimmerman didn’t have one. We do not kill for property crimes, that is immoral.

        As to red herrings, Otherwise has opened up this particular case to a more widespread national condemnation of how we as a society marginalize youth of color. I agree with that and was suggesting that poverty and joblessness drives crime and fills prisons..,so let’s work on poverty and lighten up on the racebaiting and maybe we’ll fucking get somewhere instead of spinning our wheels with all this counterproductive back biting.

        That said, as the token creepy crappy cracker around here, I have small expectations that you will take my words as conciliatory rather than provocative.

        Peace

        • Hello Frank,

          Fair enough. I just do not agree that joblessness and poverty are a factor in this particular case. And I went to some effort to deliberately leave race out of my comment although, as I noted, b37 cracked my defense on that. Since submitting my comment I have seen other conversations that bring race back into it. Not in terms of Zimmerman’s actions necessarily but in terms of the justice system. But that is another thread.

          My argument is still that Zimmerman belongs in jail and I am searching for a reason as to why that did not happen. Alifair Burke offers the judge’s instructions to the jury as a possibility. I also wondered if there is the chance that there is just no law that covers this particular situation (although Burke’s argument seems to refute that). There have been a number of discussions that indicate that “stand your ground” and maybe “self defense” do not apply to African-Americans. Ahh … race back in.

          In my mind a terrible injustice has taken place and I am looking for the cause and, my focus always takes me to looking for a systemic cause as well as individual responsibility. My orientation is that I believe one of government’s roles is to ensure a level playing field. The field doesn’t seem level in this case and I am looking for the reason.

          Many, many years ago I was in counseling and told the counselor I didn’t just want to blame my father. He responded,”what if it his fault?” I do not think I am race baiting; i tried to avoid race; but race keep tugging at my shirtsleaves.

  9. Yes it does make sense Sam, and I do tend to take up the flag for unpopular and minority causes…I doubt anyone is more unpopular around here right now than Zimmerboy the creepy crappy cracker. He’s made his own Hell and now he gets to live it.

    Well, no harm no foul, we’re just exploring each other’s minds and who knows what cobwebs and artifacts of ancient civilizations you’ll find in the dusty convoluted crevices of mine. I’ll take my own advice now, “Steady friends, steady, level headed thoughtful action promotes positive results.”

    • Hello Fnay, I’d like to lower my voice to mildly conversational. You’ve obviously put a lot of thought into this and even more obviously you are grieving for a soul that you don’t know. I find your empathy noble and try to exercise mine every day as well.

      Zimmerman–>Jail–>Right On! The dumbass ended up killing a minor because he was too stupid to know that “Neighborhood Watch” doesn’t mean “Vigilante SWAT”. I’m with you on this.

      It didn’t happen. Why? Because 6 women believed his story _and/or_ they had doubts but followed the judge’s instructions on rule of law. Prosecution MUST prove their case beyond reasonable doubt, also known as preponderance of evidence. That juror B37 was put off by a witnesses dialect is part of the unpredictable human element of trial by jury. The alternative is giving up our 6th amendment rights which would be a very dangerous thing.

      The original investigator thought Zimmerman was telling the truth and the original DA didn’t file charges because he thought it was clear cut self defense. Only after a media fueled uproar did people start getting replaced and 45 days later 2nd degree murder charges were filed. In retrospect the trial was a huge expense for no practical purpose,
      they never had enough goods on Zimmerman to put him down.

      Systemic failure? I don’t see that but maybe. Frankly while appreciating the need for social order, I find the law to often be a rude and brutish realm. Innocents get hurt, guilty go free, and money buys dispensation. Really all I can say in it’s favor is a crap shoot beats anarchy…slightly

      I have no answers but just wanted you to know I feel your words.

      • To jump back in here. My outrage is twofold. One is the sheer tragedy of the whole thing, which Frank and Fnay have covered well. But it’s also true that I’m an idealist.

        There are certain systems and processes that need to work. One is upward mobility, which is why I am so against not taxing capital gains and inheritance, even though both positions are to my personal disadvantage. I’m sick over the Patriot Act and the secret courts, because openness is critical in a democracy. Etc, etc.

        But the one that matters most is justice. It’s important that the system works. And when it doesn’t, it really bothers me.

        I was outraged by OJ, the first Spector trial, Bobby Durst and Anthony. The idea that you just can’t convict someone who can afford to hire their own lawyer makes me foam at the mouth. I realize that I’m not privy to the evidence and the case. I get it. All those guys may be innocent. But if you cut up your next door neighbor and dump them in the ocean or if your little girl goes missing and you party instead of reporting it or if you kill an unarmed kid, then by god, you should go to jail for something.

        I had a prof in law school that grandly said, “The great thing about the jury system is it works 99% of the time.” Then came DNA testing and we found out he was full of shit. It’s not quite a coin flip, but it sure as hell isn’t 99% proof.

        So part of my outrage here is at the needlessness of it, part of it is the underlaying factors like race and gun mania, but much of it is just frustration over what I see as bad process.

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